Hawks Plan New Third
Thursday · Jan 22 · 2009 | 9:42 AM PSTAt last I have something nice to say about the Chicago Blackhawks. According to the Daily Herald, the Hawks will join the Penguins when they put their 2009 Winter Classic throwback sweater into regular third jersey rotation beginning next fall.
Back in black: If you liked those throwback jerseys the Hawks wore in the Winter Classic, you're in luck. Those will become the Hawks' new third jersey next season, replacing the current black sweater that is identical to the home red and road white. The only addition to the jersey the Hawks wore at Wrigley Field will be tomahawks on the shoulders.
This is what I've been saying. A third jersey should be something different. It'll be wonderful to see it on the ice throughout the 2009-10 season and beyond. A Blackhawks jersey I can truly get behind. If you need a refresher, here's a photo. Just try to imagine it with those tomahawks on the shoulders.
My question to you is this: Should the Detroit Red Wings follow suit and add their Winter Classic sweater as a third jersey to be worn at, say, 5 or 6 games a year?
Reader Comments (126)
I believe this is what the doctor ordered... Dr. Link that is:
Marc L... I guess I'm a bit surprised on your positive about the Habs 'barber pole' jersey. I agree that it's a nice historic look, but way too busy for a primary. A few times a year would be plenty I think, for most fans. I viewed the highlites of the game, and with the white 'leaf' on the front it reminded me more of a prison look for the M.Leafs! Lotta color going on there. I'm also glad to hear you like the Sens 'barber pole' as well. I think it's definitely nicer than the Habs version. I suggested on here they use it for a 3rd in the future. We'll see.
I have no idea why SJ went back to their roots when everyone besides the 6 you mentioned, went the way of the 'new busy look'. J Baranowski said he had proof of rbk's forcing the issue to the nhl.... but I honestly don't know. For now I'll stand behind my reasoning that it was LARGELY due to financial gain more than anything else. Same goes for the NFL.
......... Wow, over 100 posts all starting from the Hawks 3rds' from the WC..... all this rbk vs. tradition without a single input from Chris!
I like all of the centennial celebration jerseys that the Habs unveiled this year, especially the blue and white one and the red and white one with the leaf on it, but I can't tell if the other color on it is suppose to be black or dark green. take a look at the pictures chris has under the third central section.
I am going to do my best to find every shred of evidence from that article:
From NHLToL:
Charlie said...
I realize it will be a long haul but I don't want people to forget that RBK popped their cherry with the Sabres and Ducks redesign and sent this whole uniform system debacle into motion.
We have the Rochester Amerks team president quoting that RBK wished to phase out horizontal stripes and most of the aesthetics except the logo was NOT done by the suggestion of the team.
October 13, 2007 12:18 PM
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from UniWatchBlog October 4th 2008
Interesting article here about the Rochester Amerks new uniforms. Key quote, from team prexy Steve Donner: “RBK is integrating vertical striping into the jersey, and they wanted to do away with all horizontal striping. It wasn’t our suggestion to remove the stripes.” …
the link is this, which is a dead article: http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071003/SPORTS02/710030324
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Here seems to be the entire article, posted on http://forums.sabres.com/index.php?showtopic=29124 the Buffalo Sabres message boards
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http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/p...PORTS#storychat
Tradition has given way to innovation, but the new jersey to be worn in the American Hockey League is still a good look for the Rochester Americans.
Or so says center Stefan Meyer, who returns for a third season with the Amerks.
"I felt they kept the tradition alive with the jersey," Meyer said after practice on Tuesday, when the club unveiled the new look. "Hopefully we can start winning in these right away and keep the tradition going."
The Amerks are the AHL's second-oldest team. They begin their 52nd season at 7:35 p.m. Friday when they play the Syracuse Crunch at Blue Cross Arena at the War Memorial.
Other than a tilting of the crest and variations of stars on the shoulders, little has changed in the sweater.
But the new EDGE uniform design by RBK, the hockey division of Reebok/CCM, has brought change. The stripes at the bottom of the sweater are gone. The stripes on the arm have been modernized.
"RBK is integrating vertical striping into the jersey, and they wanted to do away with all horizontal striping," Amerks president Steve Donner said. "It wasn't our suggestion to remove the stripes."
The new jerseys, which are also being used in the NHL, are much sleeker, a stark contrast to the traditional bulky sweaters that have been worn essentially forever.
"I don't like bulk, and with these you don't feel top heavy," Meyer said. "It's tighter-fitting, and I like them a lot."
The company claims the new uniform offers a greater range of motion. RBK also says the sweaters repel water, but many players have complained that they actually soak up sweat as the game goes on.
"They get very heavy," said Amerks defenseman Mike Funk, who wore the new jersey in preseason games with the Buffalo Sabres.
Said Meyer: "The biggest thing I noticed was instead of the socks absorbing water, it drains into your skates. But other than that, I'm a pretty big fan of them."
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^that seems to be the best i can do
Thanks Marc. I could probably take that and get the logo onto the current reds.
That's good enough (and long enough) for me, John. So there we have it..... Reebok is guilty as charged! I hope they'll eventually undo some of their mistakes.
Marc... I like all 6 of the Habs centennials as well. (Surprise?) The blue jersey is very nice, and the red & GREEN (almost positive it's not black) is pobably my favorite of the bunch.
I purchased the '45-'46 Heritage sweater that Reebok put out this Fall. Awesome jersey.... very good heavy quality, felt logo and beautiful striping. See.... I knew Rbk had it in them!
I didn't see that John posted that right before I posted my last comment.
1. Drop that Charlie comment already, its just hearsay
2. We've got an instance of a team getting shafted by Reebok. The president complains about the phasing out of horizontal stripes. Yet, 18 of 30 teams have some sort of horizontal stripe on one of more of their jerseys. Some of those jerseys were just integrated into the league this season. I can only be lead to believe that Reebok has abandoned their quest against horizontal stripes.
Interesting Link. I gandered over to uniforms.com last night. As suspected, the original 5 out of 6 still use horizontal hem stripes. Having one little stripe at the very bottom of the jersey doesn't cut it... I'm sorry. A handful of teams do this. The remainder of the bunch who continued the pre-reebok striping at the hem are: Devils, Hurricanes(squares), San Jose and Vancouver. Some 3rds have them but I'd be defeating my purpose... as most 3rd's are now throwbacks. So I guess the debate lingers.
this may be a bit off topic but since we are talking about reebok, i thought i'd share with you that some nhl teams are sublimated numbers and nameplates(for example anaheim and nashville). So basically, since anaheim uses black numbers with a white and a gold outline, the number would be all one piece and then stitched on to the jersey instead of having three layers of twill.
i think it looks good since they even sublimated the stitches too.
Throwbacks because a reasonable portion of the fans reacted negatively or tepidly to the new, modern jersey designs. A simpler explanation to the whole ordeal is that some of the folks in the design department weren't used to the new design. Its obvious from the high quality of many of the third jerseys that they got the message. I have trouble believing in some sort of Reebok conspiracy to take over the future of modern hockey, cackling in a dark corner both with Bettman.
I'd say the debate lingers, like cat urine that you've already poured vinegar and baking soda on, after spraying the whole thing down with petzyme.
my bad, i started and argument about RBK when i meant to start and olympic hockey jersey conversation. so i'll ask it again. what do you think canada will do for 2010. throw some ideas out there! USA will also have to change their logo, so give me some ideas for them too.
GO CANUCKS GO!
i think the debate lingers because there are differences in belief of how much reebok was involved in the process. I apologize for the long post, but i gave everything i had read as i was searching for that original article.
question for you Ronald, with that sweater, are there any reebok logos on it? I know inside the neck there's a tag, but if they were nice and left it off...i just haven't seen any photos of the back of one of those sweaters and i'm very curious.
as for the sublimated numbers, i think that's horrible. the feeling of them is really odd. it's not something that's super expensive, and it makes it feel soooooo much more worthwhile. now there are sublimated nhl jerseys, just like the cheap nfl jerseys, and that bothers me to no end.
based upon the jersey designs that have come up, some with horizontal stripes, some without, we must look at rbk's role. rbk was stated to be attempting to include vertical striping, but did not force it (the amerks still have horizontal stripes on the sleeves, afterall). They also wanted to remove the bottom stripes.
Therefore, RBK must be making suggestions, and pressuring teams enough that some listened to them on this issue (the Amerks we are sure of, we can assume teams like toronto, phoenix, and others that removed the hemline stripes).
we can extrapolate this further. the levels of listening. The Penguins and Senators wear the same jersey pattern, so we can imagine that they got a design from RBK and didn't disagree. RBK got their way fully there.
Some teams wanted to keep their designs similar, but RBK talked them into small changes, like the Hurricanes, Maple Leafs, Coyotes, etc. RBK got part of their way there.
Some teams wanted a new jersey but insisted on looking somewhat traditional, and the Blue Jackets, Sharks, and Stars got those new semi-traditional jerseys, insisting on some kind of normal-ish striping. RBK compromised there.
Some teams insisted on changing only what was absolutely necessary, and wouldn't listen to suggestions, which is why the Canadiens, Rangers, Devils, and Red Wings look the same. RBK was rejected there.
My hypothesis is that RBK gave designs and suggestions, then pressured the teams into accepting them. Some teams gave in immediately, some held out and only accepted a few ideas, some bargained, and some stood strong.
with the 3rd jerseys, enough teams heard enough complaints that all but a few (here's looking at you atlanta) stood up to RBK and insisted on the design that they wanted, unaltered. That's where I hold hope.
CONCLUSIONS:
Is RBK to blame? absolutely. are the teams to blame? yes. do I blame RBK more? yes i do, because the vast majority of teams would have kept the status quo had they not been pressured. If RBK never showed up for the change, would we have such ugly new designs? no we would not. thus, I blame RBK for all this
sorry, I forgot to add that the sublimated numbers are only on the jerseys that players wear in games, which is suppose to make the jersey lighter.
I don't believe that they are doing this with the retail jerseys
John, you simply cannot draw an actual conclusion based on speculation. Also, you briefly suggest that its the uniform style that leads to the poor design. That's subtly different than many of your previous statements, or I'm interpreting it incorrectly.
We have very little real information to work with, so I have a proposition. The RBK Edge transition is surprisingly divisive and we have all witnessed and been involved with some of the results of that divisiveness. What I propose is that I undertake the task of discovering the roots of what lead to the jerseys designs that we see on the ice today. I will compose an e-mail explaining my intentions in an attempt to open a dialogue or simply receive some sort of answer to my query. Failing that I will there are some other efforts that I may take. With the results that I receive I will type up a report which will be posted online for everyone too see. I will also submit the article to Chris and, if he doesn't have time to post something, maybe he could post my article. In the meantime I believe it best if we suspend what is a fruitless discussion for both sides.
Link, I think that's a fair idea. Hopefully you'll be able to get some honest answers out of rbk.
But that's the key.... will it be the truth? John does go on assumption and articles that he's read, but if you look at the entire scope of how the styles and patterns changed so drastically,it's hard to believe that SO MANY teams decided on this switch all by themselves. It's so obvious that the 80-90 yr. old franchises wouldn't cave.... they'd be foolish. Do you realize how nuts the fans of the Orig.6 would get? Like I said.... see NY Yankees. The rest of the clubs(besides a small handful) bought into rbk's idea for total change and once again.....
another chance to cash in on the fans. Sorry if you don't agree, but like I said before, they did it to the NFL too.
Its impossible for me to feign offense or surprise at a professional sports franchise looking to cash in on its fans.
In terms of the validity of the research, well... if I can get replies from multiple teams, then I can see how the stories line up. Also, you guys have no reason to believe me, but I will post what I find and not what I want to find.
I think, in the meantime, let's pick up from what Connor said.
Now, Canada wore their normal uniforms for the world juniors. I figured that the IIHF had moved passed their hissy fit. Though, it would be fun to see Canada wearing those alts from the Juniors, sharp looking, classic style. I don't know what USA would do because their jerseys just have a designed USA across the front.
John, good post... again. I'm willing to bet that your hypothesis is more factual than non. Again, and I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but I agree 100% on the 3-layer satin twill #'s as opposed to the cheapened sublimated look. I can't even believe someone(besides the players) would prefer that version. Now does everyone see what John & I have been saying? Rbk is doing a complete 360 with these shirts.
On your question John... you are correct in that there is an Rbk label sewn inside the neck. There is also a square label sewn at the front hem stripe, with the 'Vintage' V logo and a small
rbk logo beneath it. It doesn't stand out too much. For $120, I think they did a wonderful job on these. I can tell you which teams are available, if interested.
I might have to look more into these, especially since i'm seeing some of the habs' 100th anniv jerseys as sweaters online. i have to make some decisions because I've been a hardcore anti-reebokist since the 10-template tucked-in uni-system was rejected right before the lockout. I don't have a huge problem with reebok, my problem is with the edge jerseys, but the last thing i want to be is a hypocrite.
Link, I cannot draw an actual conclusion, but i feel that this is something we'll never truly, have an answer for, so just like any unprovable theory, you have to decide what the accepted answer is. that answer might change if new evidence arises, but i'm not holding my breath. So i must treat it like so many scientific questions, and work with educated guesses.
as for suspending discussion, i don't know that it should be that way. comments that are unconstructive need to go (like "rbk edge is awesome, they need new stuff!" and "traditionalism is the only way" ...let's continue with these medium-long length posts that say something constructive and back up claims with evidence or at least logical thought progression. I wish you luck with your study, which I hope you try to make as unbiased as possible. I emailed rbk once before and got nowhere, but I was told to call CCM-RBK once with a question, and they were pretty good (the hold music being salsa really threw me off though), try them at 1-800-451-4600
Marc, i read about doing that with the players, but i can't believe that's their answer. now what the players wear on the ice is crappier quality than what the fans wear in the stands. i still have trouble accepting that extra material is slowing down players THAT much. how do football players do it? why are basketball shorts getting so much longer if material means so much? it boggles my mind. anyways, check out a jersey retailer at some point, or even something like Dick's Sporting Goods, and see if you can find a jersey with "Replica Lettering" to see what I mean. perhaps some of those screen-prints will be there too. That major downgrade in quality scares me more than anything since the original edge switch.
Hey I play on a high school ice hockey team in TN and we are contemplating to get new jerseys next year. I won't be playing next year because I'm graduating, but would still like to help out. I am or was an avid reader of this site and have seen some awesome concepts, would anyone like to do a concept for us? There is no guarntees it would ever be assembled or anything like that, but I thought some people might find it fun. If you want a picture of our jersey here is a picture of a couple of them in action.
http://www.eteamz.com/BlackmanIceHockey/albums/index.cfm?id=510703
We are called Blackman Blaze, if you have any questions email me at jimmehendrix42@aol.com. Thanks.
Well seeing as how there have been no new posts here in 2 weeks and news about the isles wanting to make their thirds into their home jersey with a new away jersey based on it going unreported, I fear that this site has gone dead since Chris usually doesn't leave news like that unreported. So I'll post the link to my temporary hockey blog http://hockeyvisual.blogspot.com/ where I will post my concepts for you guys to give me advice on until icethetics is active again were I'll submit them. I posted 3 of my concepts so far and I've got a bunch more for later.
Thanks for the info John, I appreciate getting a more direct phone number than just calling Reebok directly. I really can't add much to the debate at the moment. I've posted my points and opinions, but that's all I've got. This is going to be a time consuming project, and I'm very busy, so I really don't know when this is going to get completed.
I always thought the basketball short issue was very interesting. Its a really great example of a subculture having a major impact on a professional sport. It is possible that the shorts are baggy enough that they do not restrict leg movement as much shorts that fall in between the classic short shorts and the current uniform lengths. I'm not much of basketball fan, so I've never been a position to make to many observations.
Now that I'm done enjoying my muffin, I'm going to work.
Here's an idea Max:
hi guys i just have something to say about this site, i think its great that Chris doesn't post for a long time and we still have many active users so one thing i think Chris should do is tell us he wants to post much less and create a message board so we can always talk.
Max, here's a 2-minute photoshop job using AK's website.
sorry about brutalizing the logo...again, it was a quick concept so you get the idea.
Nooj, didn't Chris say a message board was coming? i wonder if he gave up on that or if he's still working on that. In the meantime, puckdrawn.com has a good thing going, just no comments posted on it yet
Yea puck drawn has some cool info, but I'll comment when I see something that I didn't already know or some concept art posted on it. I hope it goes far and never dies like icethetics.
There will be no message board. The idea was brought up but later rejected.