NHL 2013-14 Third Jersey Schedules

The Carolina Hurricanes have new home and road sweaters this season, but that doesn't mean they're losing the popular black third jersey. In fact, they recently released a schedule that outlines the 12 games in which they'll be wearing it. 

The Canes will wear black 11 times at home and once on the road toward the end of the season. It'll make its season debut on Sun., Oct. 13 for an afternoon game against Phoenix.

Additionally, the Hurricanes point out that fans will get to see the new road jersey at home a couple times this year.

They'll sport white at PNC Arena when they host Tampa Bay on Fri., Nov. 1 and against Columbus on Sat., March 29.

I plan to add more third jersey schedules to this blog post as I come across them. Let me know if you spot any — specifically the Sabres' as I'd love to know when that one debuts!

Update on Thursday · Sep 19 · 2013 | 1:27 PM PDT by Chris

The San Jose Sharks will wear their black third jersey 11 times this season for Thursday and Sunday home games (excluding opening night).

Here's a look at how the schedule shakes out.

• Thurs., Nov. 7 — vs. Vancouver Canucks
• Thurs., Nov. 21 — vs. Tampa Bay Lightning
• Thurs., Dec. 12 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Sun., Dec. 29 — vs. Anaheim Ducks
• Thurs., Jan. 2 — vs. Edmonton Oilers
• Thurs., Jan. 9 — vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Thurs., Jan. 23 — vs. Winnipeg Jets
• Thurs., March 6 — vs. Pittsburgh Penguins
• Thurs., March 20 — vs. Anaheim Ducks
• Thurs., March 27 — vs. Winnipeg Jets
• Thurs., April 3 — vs. Los Angeles Kings

Only one Sunday date on the list and three Eastern Conference foes in Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay and Detroit will face the Sharks in black.

By the way, now that the San Jose has new home and road jerseys to match their minimalist thirds, perhaps teal will make a return to the playoffs — should the team qualify this season.

The Sharks first introduced this uniform in 2008.

For a dozen games this season, the Colorado Avalanche will sport blue. The club plans to wear their alternate sweater 12 times, all at home.

Here is a list of those dates.

• Tues., Oct. 15 — vs. Dallas Stars
• Sun., Nov. 10 — vs. Washington Capitals
• Sat., Nov. 30 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Sat., Dec. 14 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Sun., Dec. 29 — vs. Winnipeg Jets
• Mon., Jan. 6 — vs. Calgary Flames
• Thurs., Jan. 16 — vs. New Jersey Devils
• Sat., Feb. 1 — vs. Buffalo Sabres
• Sun., March 2 — vs. Tampa Bay Lightning
• Fri., March 14 — vs. Anaheim Ducks
• Thurs., March 27 — vs. Vancouver Canucks
• Thurs., April 3 — vs. New York Rangers

These dates are all over the map. The only night of the week you won't find the Avs in blue is Wednesday. Every other night is covered at some point during the season.

By the way, maybe I'm only noticing this because I'm a Lightning fan, but so far all three teams we have a schedule for plans to wear their third against Tampa Bay at some point this season. I'm looking forward to the variety!

2013 NHL Third Jersey Schedules

A handful of NHL teams have released their third jersey schedules for the abbreviated 2013 season. I'm collecting them all here, so if you know of any others floating around, drop me a line.

Boston Bruins

The Bruins will sport their alternate sweater 7 times this season — including its season debut on Monday night.

• Mon., Jan. 21 — vs. Winnipeg Jets
• Tues., Jan. 29 — vs. New Jersey Devils
• Tues., Feb. 12 — vs. New York Rangers
• Sat., Mar. 2 — vs. Tampa Bay Lightning
• Sat., Mar. 16 — vs. Washington Capitals
• Mon., Apr. 8 — vs. Carolina Hurricanes
• Fri., Apr. 19 — vs. Pittsburgh Penguins

All third jersey nights this year are home games at TD Garden and there are no repeat opponents.

The Bruins unveiled and debuted this third jersey during the 2008-09 season. This is its fifth season in use.

Carolina Hurricanes

Hurricanes fans will have to wait a while to see their team's third jersey again. It's not set to make its 2013 season debut for another month. But once it does, the black sweater will be used 7 times, including once on the road. 

• Sat., Feb. 23 — vs. Tampa Bay Lightning
• Sat., Mar. 2 — vs. Florida Panthers
• Thurs., Mar. 7 — vs. Montreal Canadiens
• Thurs., Mar. 14 — vs. Washington Capitals
• Tues., Mar. 26 — vs. Winnipeg Jets
• Sat., Apr. 6 — vs. New York Rangers
• Sun., Apr. 21 — at Tampa Bay Lightning

The Canes' third jersey will see action against all four Southeast Division opponents this year.

The sweater was unveiled and debuted during the 2008-09 season. It's now in its fifth season of use.

Colorado Avalanche

The Avalanche will also wear their third jersey 7 times this season. Starting to see a pattern here? All 2013 occasions will take place at home.

• Mon., Feb. 4 — vs. Dallas Stars
• Wed., Feb. 20 — vs. St. Louis Blues
• Sun., Mar. 10 — vs. San Jose Sharks
• Sat., Mar. 16 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Sat., Mar. 30 — vs. Nashville Predators
• Fri., Apr. 8 — vs. Calgary Flames
• Tues., Apr. 19 — vs. Edmonton Oilers

From Colorado's press release:

The Avalanche initially unveiled the third sweater to the public on Nov. 12, 2009 and wore it for the first time two nights later against the Vancouver Canucks.

The third jersey design is a collaboration of ideas from the Colorado Avalanche (including Kroenke Sports Enterprises Creative Imaging), the National Hockey League and Reebok.

The third jersey has a predominantly blue color scheme with a diagonal COLORADO type, laces at the neckline and stripes on the sleeves. Two rounds of sweater prototypes were tested and ran on ice before the final version was made.

Columbus Blue Jackets

The Blue Jackets will also wear their third jersey 7 times this season — all home games at Nationwide Arena. Here are the actual dates, as released by the club.

• Sat., Feb. 2 — vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Sun., Feb. 10 — vs. Edmonton Oilers
• Tues., Feb. 26 — vs. Dallas Stars
• Thurs., Mar. 7 — vs. Vancouver Canucks
• Tues., Mar. 19 — vs. Nashville Predators
• Sun., Apr. 7 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Fri., Apr. 12 — vs. St. Louis Blues

The Blue Jackets introduced their third jersey on Nov. 24, 2010. This is its third season in action.

Here's more from the team's website:

The phrase "We Fight, We March!," which appears on the interior of the jersey's collar, was first introduced during the 2008-09 season to describe the Blue Jackets’ first-ever march to the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

The expression continues to represent the team's intention each year to fight and march throughout the regular season and into the playoffs. Below "We Fight, We March!," 10 stars commemorate the introduction of the jersey in the club's 10th season.

Minnesota Wild

The Wild are breaking the mold, wearing their green third jersey a whopping 9 times during the 2013 season. All dates are home games.

• Sun., Jan. 20 — vs. Dallas Stars
• Wed., Jan. 30 — vs. Chicago Blackhawks
• Sat., Feb. 9 — vs. Nashville Predators
• Sun., Feb. 17 — vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Sat., Mar. 23 — vs. San Jose Sharks
• Sat., Mar. 30 — vs. Los Angeles Kings
• Tues., Apr. 9 — vs. Chicago Blackhawks
• Sun., Apr. 21 — vs. Calgary Flames
• Fri., Apr. 26 — vs. Edmonton Oilers

It's always great seeing the Wild wearing green and they'll be doing that a lot this season.

My search has only turned up third jersey schedules for these five teams. If you've come across any others, drop me a line and I'll keep adding on to this post.

Update on Wednesday · Jan 23 · 2013 | 6:01 PM PST by Chris

New York Rangers

According to their online beat writer, this season the New York Rangers will sport their third jerseys on home dates that take place on Sunday or against an Original Six opponent. Here's a look at those 9 games:

• Wed., Jan. 23 — vs. Boston Bruins
• Sat., Jan. 26 — vs. Toronto Maple Leafs
• Sun., Feb. 10 — vs. Tampa Bay Lightning
• Sun., Feb. 17 — vs. Washington Capitals
• Tues., Feb. 19 — vs. Montreal Canadiens
• Sun., Mar. 3 — vs. Buffalo Sabres
• Sun., Mar. 24 — vs. Washington Capitals
• Wed., Apr. 10 — vs. Toronto Maple Leafs
• Sun., Apr. 21 — vs. New Jersey Devils

The above dates are based on a tweet from Jim Cerny on Tuesday morning:

@JimCerny Yes, Heritage jerseys tomorrow and for all home Original 6 games and Sunday home games RT @BR19MG10: @JimCerny 3rd jerseys tomorrow?

The Rangers' home opener was this past Sunday, but they did not wear their alternate uniforms.

Thanks to @faz8218 for tipping me off on the Rangers' tweet. If you've spotted any other third jersey schedules I've overlooked, please let me know.

Update on Wednesday · Jan 23 · 2013 | 10:52 PM PST by Chris

Ottawa Senators

More third jersey schedules! The Ottawa Senators have announced 7 dates during the 2013 season when they'll sport their heritage jersey.

• Tues., Jan. 29 — vs. Washington Capitals
• Sat., Feb. 9 — vs. Winnipeg Jets
• Tues., Feb. 19 — vs. New York Islanders
• Sat., Mar. 23 — vs. Tampa Bay Lightning
• Sat., Mar. 30 — vs. Toronto Maple Leafs
• Tues., Apr. 16 — vs. Carolina Hurricanes
• Mon., Apr. 22 — vs. Pittsburgh Penguins

The black alternate sweater made its debut last season during the Sens' 20th anniversary celebration. It replaced the black "SENS" jersey that launched in 2008.

This uniform has the distinction of being the first in NHL history designed by a fan following an online campaign to have it adopted by the team. Obviously I like retelling that story. Congrats again to Jacob Barrette!

San Jose Sharks

The San Jose Sharks will bring back the "BlackArmor" for another season, according to the team's executive VP of business operations, Malcolm Bordelon. He tweeted that the third jersey will be worn on Saturdays and Thursdays, leaving us with these 9 dates.

• Sat., Jan. 26 — vs. Colorado Avalanche
• Sun., Jan. 27 — vs. Vancouver Canucks*
• Thu., Jan. 31 — vs. Edmonton Oilers
• Sat., Feb. 2 — vs. Nashville Predators
• Sat., Feb. 9 — vs. Phoenix Coyotes
• Thu., Feb. 28 — vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Sat., Mar. 9 — vs. St. Louis Blues
• Thu., Mar. 14 — vs. Los Angeles Kings
• Thu., Mar. 28 — vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Sun., Apr. 7 — vs. Dallas Stars*
• Thu., Apr. 18 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Sun., Apr. 21 — vs. Columbus Blue Jackets*

Here's that tweet from Bordelon:

@MMB52 Sharks will wear Black Jersey every Thurs & Sat game (except opening night ... Teal). Go Sharks!

Yeah, technically he said "every" Thursday and Saturday game, but I think it's safe to assume he meant to include "home game" in there since it's a dark jersey. Plus, if they wore it on the road, they'd go well past 9 dates and I can't imagine the NHL would be thrilled with that.

Thanks to @Puckguy14 for the tip on the schedule — and for being the guy to elicit it from Bordelon on Twitter. *UPDATE (1/26): After the Sharks hit the ice today in teal instead of black, Puckguy14 tweeted to say that the Sharks apparently changed the schedule to Thursdays and Sundays now.

Update on Monday · Jan 28 · 2013 | 6:22 PM PST by Chris

Phoenix Coyotes

The Coyotes are slated to sport their black alternate jerseys 6 times during the 2013 season — or so says the team's Senior Director of News Content. Dave Vest tweeted this morning that thirds would be worn tonight and for all other Monday home games this year.

• Mon., Jan. 28 — vs. Nashville Predators
• Mon., Feb. 4 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Mon., Feb. 18 — vs. Calgary Flames
• Mon., Mar. 4 — vs. Anaheim Ducks
• Mon., Mar. 25 — vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Mon., Apr. 15 — vs. San Jose Sharks

Here's that tweet, by the way:

@davest4yotes #Coyotes will wear black sweaters tonight vs. Preds. They will wear black sweaters for ALL Monday home games, actually.

So far, this is the shortest of the third jersey schedules we've seen for this season.

Washington Capitals

The Capitals' white retro jersey will return late in this shortened season — but the home crowd won't get a chance to see it in person. Today, Washington announced 7 road dates for the throwback sweater. Here they are: 

• Sat., Mar. 16 — at Boston Bruins
• Tues., Mar. 19 — at Pittsburgh Penguins
• Thurs., Mar. 21 — at Winnipeg Jets
• Fri., Mar. 22 — at Winnipeg Jets
• Sun., Mar. 24 — at New York Rangers
• Thurs., Apr. 18 — at Ottawa Senators
• Sat., Apr. 20 — at Montreal Canadiens

Interesting how all of the third jersey dates are clumped together. Basically, the Caps have a 4-game road trip in late March where the regular white sweaters will simply be left at home.

By the way, that road trip begins in Pittsburgh so you can't help but wonder if there's a chance of a rematch between the 2011 Winter Classic jerseys. The Penguins haven't released a third jersey schedule that I'm aware of.

Since Washington is only planning to wear their white alternates for road games — where they'd be wearing white anyway — none of their visiting opponents have to worry about carrying an extra set of dark jerseys.

Update on Thursday · Feb 7 · 2013 | 10:20 AM PST by Chris

Anaheim Ducks

The third jersey schedule fun continues today with the Ducks. Anaheim will sport their black alternates for a third season, including 9 home dates (two of which have already passed).

Take a look:

• Fri., Jan. 25 — vs. Vancouver Canucks
• Sat., Feb. 2 — vs. Los Angeles Kings
• Fri., Mar. 1 — vs. Minnesota Wild
• Fri., Mar. 8 — vs. Calgary Flames
• Fri., Mar. 22 — vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Fri., Apr. 5 — vs. Dallas Stars
• Sun., Apr. 7 — vs. Los Angeles Kings
• Mon., Apr. 8 — vs. Edmonton Oilers
• Sat., Apr. 27 — vs. Phoenix Coyotes

For what it's worth, the first two games in the thirds turned out like this: The Ducks got creamed 5-0 by the Canucks and beat the Kings 7-4 the following week. Take from that what you will.

The Ducks' third jersey was launched in 2010.

Islanders Unveil Black Third Jersey

I'm not going to say it. You know what I'm talking about.

The New York Islanders officially unveiled their new third jerseys to fans and media tonight at their team store inside the Nassau Coliseum. And as it turns out, all of the previous leaks were right on the money as the club introduces two new colors to its pallette — black and grey.

Check out the Islanders' official Flickr account for photos from the event.

The sweater will make its game debut a week from tonight when the Isles host the Philadelphia Flyers and again two days later on Black Friday. They also released a complete schedule detailing the 12 nights they'll be seen throughout the season.

• Wed., Nov. 23 – vs. Philadelphia Flyers
• Fri., Nov. 25 – vs. New Jersey Devils
• Sat., Dec. 10 – vs. Pittsburgh Penguins
• Fri., Dec. 23 – vs. Toronto Maple Leafs
• Thurs., Jan. 12 – vs. Philadelphia Flyers
• Sat., Jan. 21 – vs. Carolina Hurricanes
• Sat., Feb. 4 – vs. Buffalo Sabres
• Mon., Feb. 20 – vs. Ottawa Senators
• Sun., Mar. 4 – vs. New Jersey Devils
• Tues., Mar. 13 – vs. Washington Capitals
• Sat., Mar. 31 – vs. Boston Bruins
• Thurs., Apr. 5 – vs. Winnipeg Jets

No Western Conference teams will face the Isles in black this season.

Islanders Third Jersey Unveiling photo gallery

I stand by my earlier position on this jersey. While it may be one of the ugliest the Isles have ever worn — and that's saying something — I like that they've decided to use the third jersey for its intended purpose. It shows off an alternate look, completely different from what we're used to seeing.

Having said that, I think I know where these comments will go...

Holy crap, check out the pants!

Update on Monday · Nov 21 · 2011 | 10:11 AM PST by Chris

There was another link I wanted to make sure got included in this post. After the unveiling, the Islanders posted an article about the creation of the the third jersey. 

Here's an excerpt from it:

Terry Goldstein, the Islanders' Director of Retail Operations, said the Islanders started working on the Third Jersey prototype a year ago and ultimately landed on the Black Jersey after getting feedback from the Islanders organization and players. 

“We view this (third jersey) as just a fun, alternative jersey,” Goldstein said. “With our white and our blue jerseys we look back at our history, and with the black jerseys, we’re looking forward.”

The Black Jersey has the team’s name across the front with the player’s number below. The numbers also appear on each sleeve as well as on the back. The top of the jersey is gray with the traditional Islanders logo on each shoulder.

The collar and edges of the sleeves are royal blue which matches the team’s royal blue helmets and gloves. The jersey has a gray, orange and blue triangle under each arm and matches the new black pants that will feature an inverted triangle directly below, creating a diamond.

The National Hockey League allows teams to introduce a new jersey idea every three years. Originally, there were nine designs for the third jersey.

The last line was an interesting tidbit for us to hang onto. Appparently third jerseys can be swapped out every three years. We already know Ottawa and Toronto have taken advantage of that rule. They each launched thirds in 2008, wore them for three seasons, and launched new ones this year.

Islanders Launching New 3rd on 11/16

Leaked photo of Isles jerseyFinally, the announcement we've all been waiting months to hear. When will the New York Islanders unveil their new third jersey? The answer: in 8 days.

The answer came this morning in an online press release from the team, announcing the Islanders Winter-Wear Wonderland event being held Wed., Nov. 16 at the Nassau Coliseum's new team store.

As you know, this jersey has been one of the worst-kept secrets in all of hockey this year, especially since it's currently appearing in printed editions of the River City Sports catalogue. They're reponsible for the leaked image seen here (right).

But that wasn't the first time we saw it. Here's a quick rundown of how the Isles' third jersey story unfolded:

• Aug. 2010 — Isles director of retail operations reveals a new third jersey is in the pipeline.
• March 2011 — Isles blogger Chris Botta confirms a third jersey is still in the works.
• May — A fan with a friend at a sporting apparel store spills the beans, reporting the jersey will be black. I am highly skeptical.
• Aug. 4 — An ex-Isles designer posts a uniform mock-up to his Flickr account. It appears to be the new black alternate uniform. The image soon disappears from the account but lives on forever in cyberspace.
• Aug. 21 — Icethetics independently confirms details of the new look, including features changed from the ex-designer's mock-up (i.e.: white shoulders swapped for gray).
• Oct. 12 — The River City Sports product catalogue is distributed and features official photography of the unreleased Islanders' third jersey.

That brings us to today's announcement. And by the way, if these leaks weren't enough to convince you this jersey will, in fact, be black, why not let the Islanders hint at it for you?

Why else would Michael Grabner be decked out in black? If that's not a hint, I don't know what is. Perhaps it's just the Isles' new Winter-Wear collection? Perhaps not.

Islanders' 40th anniversary logoFurthermore, there's another point I don't think has been discussed here yet. This is the logo the New York Islanders are using to mark their 40th annivesary season (right).

The text in the circle that reads "celebrating 40 years of Islanders hockey" is set in a familiar font. It's the same font used in "Islanders" on the front of the leaked jersey. It's called Franchise.

The next question you probably have is this: since the leaks have been out for so long and the response as been less than favorable — and the team knows this — might they have changed the design between the leak and next week's release?

I think based on its appearance in the River City catalogue, that would be a clear no. Not to mention the fact that the Tampa Bay Lightning got an earful from fans over their new look, and despite wanting to make some alterations, said it was too late in the process to do so. That was February.

In other words, if the Bolts didn't have enough time between February and October to make changes, how could the Isles possibly have enough time between August and November? That's my take, anyway.

So has your opinion of this jersey changed since the first time you saw it? Because in eight days, it turns from Internet speculation into the real deal.

Bruins, Kings 3rd Jersey Schedules

Couple of new third jersey schedules to get on the blog today. 

The Boston Bruins are bringing back their black third jerseys for a fourth season this year. On October 21, the club released a schedule detailing when it will be worn during the 2011-12 season.

I'm still holding out hope that one day they'll come to their senses and drop this jersey in favor of the gold Winter Classic one. But if I recall right, I don't think many Bruins fans would agree with me on that one. 

Zdeno CharaThe alternate threads will see action in 11 home games throughout the year. Here's the breakdown:

• Sat., Oct. 22 – vs. San Jose Sharks
• Tues., Nov. 15 – vs. New Jersey Devils
• Fri., Nov. 25 – vs. Detroit Red Wings
• Thurs., Dec. 8 – vs. Florida Panthers
• Mon., Dec. 19 – vs. Montreal Canadiens
• Sat., Jan. 21 – vs. New York Rangers
• Tues., Jan. 31 – vs. Ottawa Senators
• Sat., Feb. 11 – vs. Nashville Predators
• Sat., Mar. 3 – vs. New York Islanders
• Sat., Mar. 17 – vs. Philadelphia Flyers
• Sat., Apr. 7 – vs. Buffalo Sabres

The Bruins also pointed out that on Sat., Dec. 3, they'll wear their road white jerseys at home when they host the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Still think it's incomplete without waist stripes.

Moving on now to L.A.

The Los Angeles Kings basically have two alternate jerseys to wear this season. And according to the team, both are going to be used rather sparingly.

The new third jersey is a reprise of their old home jersey which lasted from 2007 until last year. (The new home jersey was the third until last year.) Plus, they're bringing back the brightly-colored purple and gold Legends Night jersey for a few games.

Justin WilliamsBut first, the third jersey will see action in just eight games (two on the road), about half of the league maximum.

• Thurs., Nov. 3 – vs. Edmonton Oilers
• Tues., Nov. 8 – vs. Nashville Predators
• Tues., Nov. 22 – at St. Louis Blues
• Wed., Nov. 23 – at Dallas Stars
• Thurs., Dec. 8 – vs. Minnesota Wild
• Thurs., Jan. 5 – vs. Phoenix Coyotes
• Thurs., Jan. 12 – vs. Dallas Stars
• Thurs., Feb. 16 – vs. Phoenix Coyotes

Some of those dates are pulled from the Kings' website via the link above. The rest come from LA Kings Insider Rich Hammond in a blog post from October 25.

There are only three Legends Nights, where the Kings will don those über-retro sweaters from the 1960s. They are as follows:

• Sat., Dec. 10 – vs. Dallas Stars
• Mon., Jan. 2 – vs. Colorado Avalanche
• Sat., Feb. 18 – vs. Calgary Flames

A couple other teams should be sporting retro jerseys on Jan. 2, but we're still waiting to see what the Rangers' and Flyers' Winter Classic jerseys will look like.

All of these schedules are going in the sidebar calendar along with the Tampa Bay Lightning's schedule. They haven't officially released a schedule, but they've historically worn the BOLTS jersey for weekend home games only and that's continued into this season.

Update on Sunday · Nov 6 · 2011 | 4:18 PM PST by Chris

Another third jersey schedule to add.

The Florida Panthers confirmed via Twitter last week that the blue third jerseys will be worn for all Sunday home games during the season.

This is apparently the final season that we'll be seeing the "JetBlue jerseys" as you'll recall Miami Herald beat writer George Richards reported in September that team management has fallen out of love with the look in a big way. GM Mike Santos actually called them "silly colors," referring to the dark blue and light blue of the alternate uniform.

Stephen WeissSo I went through the Panthers' season schedule these Sunday home games appear to be the final eight for this doomed sweater:

• Sun., Nov. 6 – vs. Tampa Bay Lightning
• Sun., Nov. 13 – vs. Philadelphia Flyers
• Sun., Dec. 18 – vs. Carolina Hurricanes
• Sun., Feb. 19 – vs. Anaheim Ducks
• Sun., Feb. 26 – vs. Montreal Canadiens
• Sun., Mar. 4 – vs. Ottawa Senators
• Sun., Mar. 11 – vs. Carolina Hurricanes
• Sun., Mar. 25 – vs. New York Islanders

I understand Santos' position. This jersey doesn't exactly scream Panthers and it got a lot of crap for borrowing the colors of the Penguins' third, but... I've always thought it was a nice looking jersey.

But I guess that leaves another question. When this jersey is retired, will the Panthers go back to the third jersey drawing board? Or will they stick with just two sweaters for a while? And if they do try a new third, what's there best bet?